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Name: steadyrollinwalkman@yahoo.com
E-Mail: steadyrollinwalkman@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: But they did all died in vain!
Date: Saturday, May 08, 2010
Time: 6:51:27 PM
Remote Address: 174.102.118.252
Message ID: 253730
Parent ID: 253705
Thread ID: 253600
>Of course, the draft was different back then. Instead of stealing the life of 18 year old boys with forced military service for 4 years, in the 1940s they were only forced to serve 2 years (up until the war started, anyway).
Uh, when the draft was issued durring Vietnam, it was time in basic + 12 months in country. 13 if you were in the Marines. It was about 2 years, not 4 durring Vietnam.
And you think 18 was young? How about 14, or 13? Because the National Liberation Front (VC) and the Peoples Army of Vietnam (NVA) recruited them that young. 13, 14 years old, given a weapon, taught how to use it, and brainwashed by political cadre so they would fight for the cause.
>You still haven't explained what this pro-war talk of yours has to do with the students at Kent State. Instead of honoring those who were killed 40 years ago for no reason, you piss on their graves with your pro Viet Nam war talk here.... Shame!
And you piss on the graves of our men who fought righteously and with honor to defend a people who were unable to do it themselves by saying the war was a waste, and they died for nothing. Communist nations have been responsible for the deaths of nearly 100 million of their own people. We were trying to prevent that in Vietnam. Hey, communism does look good on paper, I won't argue that. No poor, no excessive rich, however it doesn't work out.
As far as what my pro-war talk has to do with the demonstrations at Kent State, they were protesting the invasion into Cambodia. Anyone with any strategic intellect can grasp that the invasion was necessary to disrupt the NVA safe-haven sanctuary. It was the United States on the Offensive for a change.
>"Fight, fight, fight"?? Dude, I hate to tell you this, but that's the goal of every damn war!
Listen, in Korea, in WWII, in WWI, we had something called the front line. The enemy was clear, he was uniformed. In Vietnam, we didn't have that, the enemy dressed as civilians, and blended amongst the people. In Vietnam, we relied on static defense posts scattered all across the country. The average Tactical Area of Operational Responsibility was within a 10km radius of the base. We weren't in attack mode (fight, fight, fight), we were in defense mode, unlike WWII.
The enemy had strong holds though in South Vietnam. Two of the largest were in the Ashua Valley, and one in the U-Minh Forrest, on the extreme of SVN. U-Minh was never attacked with force. Ashua was a safe-haven for years durring the war, no US forces entered. In 1969, we finally set sights on the Ashua though. Marines and the 101st Airborne set out on the offensive to eliminate them where they were strong, after many LRRP (Long Range Recon Patrols) missions into the Ashua to map out troop strengths and positions.
You may recall a movie called "Hamburger Hill," it is about one of the battles in Ashua valley. A hill where men were butchered like hamburger. After 10 days of assualting the hill, it was finally secured. Public outcry was enraged and political pressure made the hill abandoned, back to the enemy. A 101st outpost called Firebase Ripcord, though it was making serious progress in eliminating the enemy in their stronghold, had to be abandoned because of bad press about the number of US dead and wounded.
Because of the Kent State shootings, politcal pressure withdrew our troops from Cambodia, giving the enemy back their old strong-hold. They were able to start stock-piling again, getting ready for the 1972 Easter Offensive, and again 3 years later to occupy all of Vietnam, and enslaved former ARVNs for years, and murdered their families.
As far as the dead at Kent State, it shouldn't have happened. But let me ask you this, do you think it's smart to throw rocks and bottles at people with guns? No, it's stupid. It's stupid to throw rocks and bottles at anyone, but someone who is armed? They were being stupid and, unfortunately, they payed for their stupidity. No, it shouldn't have happened, but it did.
I still don't see how you can't honor our fallen soldiers from Vietnam with the same way you would for a soldier who died in WWII. Listen, I used to think the Vietnam war should never have happened, but durring my research over the years, I believe it was a justified war, only executed poorly. I've read several hundreds of books about the conflict starting back to the French Indo-China War up to when Pol Pot was finally brought to justice in the 90's. I've talked to countless Vietnamese and when they fled inbetween 1975 to 1987 they said they wanted to come to America because they were very much in debt for the limited help we were able to provide them. They are that loyal. We lost for them, and they still are loyal.
I can't tell you how many American veterans I've talked to either. I've heard stories that would break your heart. Stories about their best buddies dying in their arms, stories about being spit in the face as soon as they returned home. I've talked to a lot of homeless vets too, and they said their biggest problem wasn't adjusting to being back home, it was being outcasted by former friends and strangers at home. Even men who were stationed in cush rear jobs were called baby-killers and rapists. They never recieved the welcome home previous warriors recieved.
It is only been in the last 25 or so years that these brave men have been able to be publicly proud about their service. Not because of a feeling of guilt, but because of fear of how other people would react. Most people (and I don't mean to sound insensitive, but definately not yourself) have been more open-minded, and more willing to listen. Whenever I spot the hat or patch or shirt with green on both ends, yellow in the center seperated by 3 red lines (the Vietnam Service medal), I always strike up a conversation. "When were you incountry?" "What unit were you in?" and if I didn't know after those two questions, "Where incountry were you?" All are happy to answer any questions. Most are suprised my knowledge of the war.
Whenever the conversation is about to end, I always say the same thing "Sir, I appreciate your sacrifice, and though it's late, welcome home sir." You have no idea the effect the words "welcome home" are. Some give hearty handshakes, others hugs, some tear up breifly and say "Thank You."
I remember one Marine, a PFC who had lost his left leg at Con Thein by shrapnel from a 120mm rocket. When I said my line, I extended my hand, and he ignored it by hugging me and weeping in the middle of a public place. I knew he had held some intense emotions for a long time. He finally regained his posture, wipped his eyes and cheeks with his right sleeve, looked me square in the eye, and said "When I got off the plane back in the states, I envisioned my mother, father, and my girlfriend waiting for me at the terminal holding a big banner saying 'Welcome Home'. But dad had a heart attack after hearing I was seriously wounded, mom was at the hospital, and I found out a week later my girlfriend was pregnant from her college friend. The first thing I was greated with, when I got to the terminal was 'It's a shame they didn't get both your legs.'"
Every Viet Vet I've ever met has been proud of their service, and believes their sacrifices were not in vain. I see patches like "When I left, We Were Still Winning" and "Jane Fonda-American Traitor Bitch." I even know of one vet who spends $5 per roll of toilet paper so he can wipe his ass with nothing but the purest Jane Fonda toilet paper available (by the way, don't get me started on her, she is responsible for the torture of several POW's who tried to pass her messages to get to the government, but she handed it to the NVA instead).
Keno, where do you get your views from? The 60's where it was cool to be against the war? Have you done much research about the war? Religon? Isolationism? I'm not trying to be smart or sarcastic, I'm just trying to figure out your logic.
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