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Name: SteadyRollinWalkman
E-Mail: steadyrollinwalkman@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: RE: More NSC
Date: Saturday, May 15, 2010
Time: 6:30:20 PM
Remote Address: 98.30.114.225
Message ID: 253971
Parent ID: 253895
Thread ID: 253600
>That isn't what I said. Your reasoning sucks because you think it was okay to force unwilling teenage kids to go die there, and for the Ohio National Guard to kill collage kids. That is what sucks. Wanting to protect people doesn't suck, but you don't seem to care about our own kids in your reasoning.
Well, the draft durring WWII sent unwilling teenagers to war against the will of some, but we viewed the outcome justified the means. Maybe if our armed services had the perks it has today (enlistment bonus, better salary, etc) it did then (3 hots and a cot, $300 a month unless you signed up for the GI bill), we wouldn't have had to rely on the draft (and an all voulunteer military is stronger than a draft implied military). But that's not how it was.
As far as the Kent State shootings, I was just trying to talk about what wasn't talked about. No, it shouldn't have happened, but it did unfortunately. The Guardsmen responsible, though under investigation (and protected by Nixon), never were held responsible. They didn't even get an Article 15 (reduced in rank, pay). And those responsible for throwing rocks and bottles (the non-student outside instigators) weren't the recipients of the 7.62x51mm rounds shot.
>So we have established that you feel that the Ohio National Guard had a right to kill those students because some of the students threw rocks. Fine, you are the only living person today who I know of, other than those murdering guardsmen, who believe that shit.
No, those people being stupid payed for their stupidity, living knowing that by throwing a few rocks at people with guns, hurling crowd dispersant tear gas back towards the Guardsmen, they triggered the killing of 4 students, wounding 13(?) others. I guarantee you they still think everyday "I wish I hadn't done that." They pay their price for stupidity with the everlasting feel of guilt.
As far as me being the only person that believes that, I checked my notes on a book I read a few years back, INTO CAMBODIA.
"Lieutenant Forster of the Dreadnaughts was furious that night as they sat reading the Stars and Stripes on their cots in their freshly dug position: Kent State dominated the front page. It enraged him that four students killed in what was essentially an accident (not my words, it wasn't an accident) were becoming martyrs. He could not get his mind off the eight GIs blown to pieces the day before, their deaths to be unrecognized and unremembered by all but their families: 'I had infinitely more admiration for the brave NVA we met in the field -not the liars in Hanoi like Le Duc Tho -than for anyone who demonstrated.'"
>I don't watch war movies and never seen that movie.
Good, Apocalypse Now is the biggest piece of shit filth I've ever seen.
>But all war movies are full of lies; some jerks just go to see them for the violence, forgetting (or just not caring) that the violence was the one thing that really did happened.
If you ever see one, see We Were Soldiers. I've read We Were Soldiers Once...And Young twice. It is very accurate. Except for the occasinal, "well, it was so and so who said that" or "that was found outside the Lost Platoon's perimeter" or "Julie Moore acutally had to travel hundreds of miles to tell each wife her husband was killed."
>Agree, one always needs to know both sides. So now you need to do the same kind of research about the peace movement of the '60s and early '70s, instead of believing the lies that asshole, pro-war hawk librarian told you and placed into your then young mind.
It wasn't until a few years ago I started forming this "pro-war hawk" opinion about the Vietnam War, while doing background research for my book about how US POW's were abandoned. Though I'd read about Veteran's experiences since I was in grade school in books I'd pick up (I read most about the Civil War and Vietnam), I've done most of my reading in the last 3-4 years. And I've talked to many Vietnam Veterans and Vietnamese refugees. It wasn't my female war protestor "pro-war hawk" librarian who "planted" the idea in my head.
>I wonder just how you would had reacted if you were approaching 18 and were faced with the same shit? Maybe you would not had become a war hawk by just reading history books?
Keno, do you remember I was AGAINST the war in Iraq? I still believe it was stupid to invade Iraq when our main enemy was Bin Laden, who had no connection to Iraq or Sadam. We only sent a limited number of Special Forces and Rangers into Afghanistan, yet we unleased half the fucking armed forces into Iraq. WTF? I knew there were no WMD's, and I knew we'd sweep through quick, but we'd deal with insurgency for YEARS. And because of that, our military higher commands not learning the lessons of Vietnam, were doomed to repeat it.
I had 3 years ROTC, 2 years Platoon Leadership Class (out of Quantico with the USMC), had my commission, but didn't join up because of the POW/MIA issue, and I was against the war in Iraq. After a few years, I found out some of my ROTC and PLC buddies were killed in Iraq. I joined up, I wasn't for the war in Iraq, but my buddies were over there and I wanted to be with my buddies, my Marines. After a training incident, I dislocated my shoulder and it was discovered I had hypoglycemia. I was kicked out. I even volunteered to resign my commission, go in as enlisted, and was denied. It was then that I decided to fight for someone else who needed my help, our POW/MIA's.
>Ben, I've known you here online at Gasland since you were in high school. (I miss that you don't post here about the Stones anymore).
Well, I've only been able to recently get time to post on Gasland (other than my research, I've been busy caring for a friend who I felt was at risk. He committed suicide a few months ago. Despite everything I tried to do for him, and constantly trying to get him help, he went into a dark place I couldn't pull him from), and trust me, the Stones are back baby! Looking forward to getting my copy of EOMS + Extras. What I never shared with anyone on this board, was my plans on entering the military. I kind of viewed I'd be outcasted. I just wanted a place I could talk with the Rolling Stones part of me, not my military part.
>So I hope you will now learn the truth about that unjust Viet Nam war.
I know the truth. I see the truth whenever I visit the Vietnam Wall. I hear it whenever I talk to an ARVN, or refugee. Agree with me, disagree, you're entitled to your opinion.
Ok, we'd better stop this thread before someone brings up circumsition and someone leaves the board forever! Keno, I love ya dude, and I understand your views, but I have my own.
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