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Name: Ben Jammin'
E-Mail: steadyrollinwalkman@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: RE: Was the Vietnam War Justified? Hell Yes
Date: Wednesday, May 05, 2010
Time: 10:59:11 PM
Remote Address: 98.30.113.119
Message ID: 253666
Parent ID: 253640
Thread ID: 253600
Ok, I thought I'd get some flack on this, but hear me out.
After the French defeat at Dien Ben Phu, the French suruendered, and the 1954 Paris Peace Accords split Vietnam at the 17th parallel, and promised to hold free elections 2 years from that date. Hundreds of thousands of North Vietnamese fled to democratic South Vietnam because they feared Communist control. Very few South Vietnamese fled to North Vietnam.
Elections were never held, and that's when the then called "Viet Minh" started waging war against the South. Ho Chi Minh actually wrote President Truman asking for his support to tell the French to get the hell out of IndoChina. After nearly 100 years rule of French colonialism, the French withdrew it's troops from SE Asia at the start of WWII. After the war, France re-occupied it's lands. However, since France was an ally, Truman ignored Ho Chi Minh's requests. People have a right to govern themselves, and since Ho Chi Minh couldn't get our support, he chose the next nation that would, Russia.
This was our first mistake in the Vietnam War.
After Uncle Ho accepted Communist help, arms, ammunition, etc poured into NVN to rid SVN of it's troops. They recieved weapons and ammo from Russia, China, Yugoslavia, Romania, etc. Soon, SVN was outgunned and outnumbered. These were a people who were being slaughtered, who were fighting for their freedom but needed assistance.
Like I said, forget about the "dominoe theoree," look at it as a humanitarian issue. Yes, it is unfortunate we don't resolve issues today based on humanitarian, but rather oil. I'd love for us to kick the shit out of these African warlords killing their own people. But there is no oil there, so there is no profit.
But the South Vietnamese needed our help because with their manpower and weapons issued they were no match against the Soviet backed enemy. Hell, most of the ARVN troops were issued M-1 Garand rifles, out of date at that period, and had a powerful recoil most Asians have a hard time with. It was only after Tet that most ARVN troops recieved M-16A1s that they could handle. After that, despite the withdrawl of many American forces, were they able to hold their own ground.
So we intervened. We failed when we said "this is a free-fire zone." and "this zone you have to be fired upon before returning fire." It made even less sense when we let the Vietnamese have free-range of transporting men, arms, and supporting equipment down the Ho Chi Minh Trail through Laos and Cambodia.
And to be brief, there were serious security breaches because we had to let the ARVN military in on just about anything. In fact, one of the ARVN moles identified as an NVA high officer was promoted so we could have all his contacts identified and observed.
People talk of the My Lai Massacre, and it is a very bad black-eye for the United States Military. But what do you know of the Hue City Massacre of 1968? Nothing, because it didn't support the newspaper's agenda for sale. Right before the Tet Offensive of 1968, at least 2,000 civilians were executed by NVA soldiers. Anyone with any connection to the government at all. If your father was a teacher, guess what, you were killed. This was a people who were trying to fight their enemy (much like the Phillipinoes durring WWII), but were unable to do so with their rescources. Does this sound like a people who needed our protection? Once again, I wish we were protecting the people in Africa who deal with this daily but are neglected by our government.
Durring the Vietnam War, any citizen with connections to the South Vietnamese Gov't or the United States Government who was captured by the Communist Vietnames was murdered. Remember your first grade teacher? Well they were killed. Remember your family member who was poor and cleaned government buildings to get some money? Guess what, they were killed also.
When SVN was falling in 1975, hundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese (some of whom fled durring the 1954 separation of the country) scrapped at any inbound helicopter because they feared the invading forces. After NVN gained control of SVN, they sent notices to any enlisted ARVN soldier to join a "re-education camp." Most returned after only a week. Then NVN sent notices to NCO's and Officers for "re-education training."
Seeing that the formentioned group was released after a week, most former ARVN's joined the classes. The 500,000+ that showed up didn't know they were about to be imprisioned for up to 15 years in Nazi-like Concentration "Re-Education" camps. Thousands died. I'm still trying to get Tse (captured in the Central Highlands in 1975) to tell his story in a book about his experiences in these camps, and he is still afraid about Vietnamese retaliation. He managed, after 10 years imprisonment to escape after the war. He made his way to Thailand, and then to the U.S. By the way, he also had seen American POW's held after the war ended.
After several border incursions between Vietnam and Cambodia, Vietnam retaliated in force by an invasion into Cambodia in early 1979. The Vietamese quickly gain control of most of the country. What they found was shocking. The "S-21" prison, and the killing fields of Cambodia (where Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot killed at least 1.5 million of his own people) was discovered by the Vietnamese. The Khmer Rouge was supported by the Vietnamese durring the war. The Khmer secured Phnom Phen the day befoe it's allies (NVN) occupied Saigon.
Vietnam's cheif ally at the time was the Russians. Cambodia's cheif ally was China. Shortly after Vietnam invaded Cambodia, China responded by sending troops into NVN. Because of the defenses NVN had built, Vietnam repulsed the attacks from China, yet still maintained much control over the country of Cambodia.
It was durring this period, that up to a million refugees sought refuge to surrounding countries. There was a masive food shortage, and many people were unhappy with the Vietnamese Communist control, and fled. They chose to take the routes of passage through which the Vietnamese didn't patrol. Most took to the open seas, vulerable to pirate attacks, to escape from Communist Vietnam.
Many reported live-sightings they observed durring the exodous of live American POW's held long after the war. Our government discredited most of these valid reports. Despite numerous that coroborrated previous reports, they will be discreditted.
I guess the thing that pisses me off about people who were never there, never had fought for it, say that the US/Vietnam War was a waste. WHY DON'T YOU ASK SOMEONE THAT WAS THERE, WHO FOUGHT THERE (Not some Rear Echelon Mother Fucker, someone on the frontline). Why don't you read Blackjack-34 (a book about American advisors controlling indigeous soldiers)?
Ask Tse, he fought for his country, was imprisoned for 10 years after the war, before he finally escaped. Ask him, was it worth it? Even though he was defeated, does he view that our involvment was worth our help to fight for him? Or should we have just turned our backs to him while Tse, his family, and his friends, were masacurred? Tse will tell you that he and his people needed help.
And what of the Mountagnards? They are the original ancestors of what is now the Vietnam Central Highlands. They are still being persecuted by the Vietnamese much like blacks were by the whites over the last 200 years. If we had been able to committ, they would not be a people on the borderline of extinction.
And if you are still reading this post and not feeling pissed off because what I'm saying doesn't relate to your feelings, I ask you one question. Do you want to dishonor our fallen commrades by saying that they died in vain? Disagree with the Vietnam War, or our current war as much as you wish, but don't say they died in vain.
As far as the Cambodian Invasion of 1970 is concerned, it was one of the most common sense tacticts of the whole fucking war. The enemy harbors men and materials in Cambodia, well then fucking invade it. Destroy the enemy where he is stock-piling. The invasion into Cambodia disrupted NVN's plans to knock out SVN. The invasion was so effective (as it destroyed massive stockpiles of arms) that NVN's plan to invade SVN with brute force was delayed 2 years (this invasion has been called the Easter-tide Invasion). My view, Nixon's failure was limiting the invasion. And because of the protests that occurred, the Lam Son 719 Invasion into Laos handled by the SVNese was a complete failure.
So 4 draft-dodging protestors were killed. I have no sympathy. But, the National Guard should have shot warning shots over the crowd first. There are so many different stories about what happened that day it's difficult to distinguish truth from fact. And by the way, that librarian I talked about was an anti-war protestor (she wasn't some white-collar observer).
Don't get me wrong, I was AGAINST the war in Iraq because I envisioned it ending up just like Vietnam. Besides that, I viewed our main target was Osama Bin Laden and his dumbass Towell-Headed Haji followers. I was just trying to say in my earlier post, those protesters weren't as "innocent" as all history documentaries, documents, etc. will imply. What happened was a tradgedy. It should never have happened.
But in the place of those National Guard, if I were given a weapon, and were given orders, and the outpost I had been told to defend was burned down the night before, and I had rocks hurled towards me, I'd like to think I'd have fired over their heads first.
I guess the point I'm trying to make, unless you were there; and you bled the blood; fought the fight; and sweat it out under the gear, you're entitled to your opinon. Those who didn't, have no F***ing idea about what happened. Read some books, talk to some vets, talk to some refugees, and then tell me your opinon. I might respond more courteously.
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