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Name: pluto
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Poll Post and your other comments
Date: Friday, November 06, 2020
Time: 8:24:30 AM
Remote Address:
Message ID: 320750
Parent ID: 320749
Thread ID: 320747

RE: RE: RE: Poll Post and your other comments

I think on a couple of points your first paragraph back up my claim that the liberal left are still not understanding what has been going on in the United States.

You appear to be saying that your view that Trump would be trounced was based on what you were picking up from those around you in your liberal community, and blue State. That is precisely what has been happening, and why 2016 came as a huge shock to many, including yourself. The soft left, and the educated elites/political establishment have only been talking to themselves whether directly or in on-line communities, Facebook, and the like. They have been existing in an echo chamber, having their own views bounced back to them. Therefore a 'moron' like Trump just couldn't be voted into office....the very thought was laughable almost, right? Talk about taking one's eye off the ball (I don't just mean you, personally).

A second point from your first paragraph is the continued insistence in describing people who vote for Trump, as 'morons'. I would have thought that a lesson would have been learned after Clinton's 'basket of deplorables' outburst (an outburst which revealed the contempt one political elite hold millions of ordinary Americans, in). That statement and accompanying accusations of 'racist' 'xenophobic' 'homophobic' etc etc being aimed at people who were in fact victims, were used to great effect by Trump. The people whom Clinton was calling 'deplorables' are in actual fact large swathes of working class, lower middle class, and rural workers, who's living standards were nose diving in the wake of the 2008 crisis of capitalism, and if truth be told, since Reagan. The people whom the Democratic elite took for granted.

I am not of course saying that there are no racists etc etc amongst those who are attracted to Trump, there are, they exist in all sections of society. Of course by turning their backs on their traditional heartlands, the Democrats, and the liberal elites left a vacuum which, encouraged by Trump, the voices of the right, and far right, have to an extent filled, as has Trump, himself. If the 'deplorables' are in danger of being radicalised by an ugly inward looking chauvinistic nationalism, the blame lies almost entirely with

the liberal and political elites.

You have a very polarised, and dangerous country. That situation has no chance of resolving itself by continuing to dismiss the legitimate grievances of millions of ordinary Americans, by writing them off as 'morons'(some 76 million of them).

I think if it has shown anything, this Presidential Election has shown that Trump's election in 2016 was no historical aberration. The fact that today we still cannot be 100% sure that Trump won't return to the big house, speaks to that. This election took place in the midst of a pandemic which has seen over two hundred and thirty thousand American's lose their lives so far, and which has been handled appallingly. Another result of this pandemic is of course, a tanking economy. It was also an election that saw record numbers voting (perhaps that is the one glimmer of hope). In 'normal' times all of these factors would point to a landslide Democratic win. These however are not 'normal' times.

I think also the fact that Trump's popular vote has held up, if not increased, exposes the nonsense of the effect Russian interference had on the 2016 election for what it was, and is, i.e. nonsense...the desperation of a bemused, and bruised establishment. Of course that is not to say that the governments of powerful countries do not interfere or attempt to interfere in the affairs of other countries. However, Putin's effect on the 2016 election was minimal, if even that. You can rest assured however, that the irony of an American political elite crying foul re the supposed interference of a foreign country in their affairs, will not be lost on millions throughout the World.

The U.S.A. is a very large, powerful, and diverse country, and perhaps as a consequence tends to be somewhat insular. So it is from that standpoint that I'll approach your statement vis a vis Europe, violence, and indeed events in the U.S.A.

It is quite wrong to say that Europe has never had the violence that the U.S.A. has. The last European Fascist dictatorships of the 1920's and 30's only came to an end in the mid 1970's. The scars and grievances run deep. We've had the Greek Junta of 1967, the tragedy of the Balkans, and massive upheaval in the former states of the Soviet Union, and Stalinist satellites, to name but some instances where violence was on the agenda. Political violence has never been far from the surface in Europe.

As the most powerful 'democracy' in the World it is perhaps not surprising that this polarisation of opinion seems to be at it's sharpest in the U.S.A. The fact is though, that this same tendency towards populist nationalism, authoritarianism, and autocracy, is playing out across the World. Currently it is being contained, but just, and no more.

I agree that it is likely to be Biden who goes to the big house. So just what will the next four years look like? I will hazard a guess, and say, grim. Biden as President will be faced with an ongoing pandemic, and a post pandemic economy, capitalism's next major crisis. Trump or should I say 'Trumpism' is not going away. Trump himself may leave the stage (noisily) but he will be replaced by perhaps a family member, or some other arch reactionary. In the face of the on going economic crisis (with the likelihood of political gridlock), and consequent hardening of polarised opinions, Biden, a centrist, will move steadily to the right. He will take on the language of the right, make himself the great patriot in an attempt to stave off 'Trumpism', and win back what has been lost. He, and the Democratic Party, have no solutions for working people. The American political system has no solutions for working people in a world crisis that is deepening.

This is all going to the streets World wide, and the street is where real change takes place. If we want the right outcome then we have to put forward a radical alternative to extreme nationalism/ fascism, and the capitalist economic model. You don't start that process by branding the only class in society capable of bringing about that change, 'morons'. All that does is alienate, and leave them even more receptive to the poison of the extreme right.

Good luck with your hospital appointments, and be happy that like me, you're on your way out. Things are not looking great.

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