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Subject: RE: RE: Kaepernick, workplace looks, etc (SSC)
Date: Thursday, September 06, 2018
Time: 12:41:58 PM
Remote Address: 22.214.171.124
Message ID: 317420
Parent ID: 317412
Thread ID: 317397
Its also not a human rights case.
Oh, but indirectly it was. But yeah, I get your drift, his employer wasn't voliating anybody's human rights, but some say - they were violating his rights as a U.S. citizen to protest when they told him to stop.
Did the NFL or the team owner actually say the players must stand during the anthem?
Yes and no. At first - when he did it - no, there wasn't any policy on this. After it took place, there was.
...regardless of whether they did require players to stand or not, is it reasonable in a free and democratic society for an employer to dictate this while you are working?
As a former successful businessman, yes and no would be my answer. It just depends on what they ask of you. Remember the thread we just had about Mick Jagger being told to get a haircut back in the early '60s while up on stage? Okay, let's take this on from what was discussed in that thread....
IMO, a boss or job description should never in a free country tell a employee how they should look off the job - period. By telling a guy he must cut his hair short to work there, or shave off his beard, should be 100% not allowed in a free sociality since it interferes with that person's private life. No U.S. job ever has told any women how long or short their hair should be (other than maybe the military - which is different), yet since the '60s this has been common practice in the workforce for males only. That is 100% sex discrimination in the job market and work force if nothing else, but there are other reasons why it's totally wrong telling somebody how to look when it comes to body parts. Can a white racist tell a black person to paint their faces white if they want a job? No, of course not, but even in that case a moron could argue that a person can get rid of the "white" on their skin after work was over while one can't glue their hair back on after work.
I've heard some say, well you're born with the color skin you have and you can't change that or choose your skin color. Yes, I agree. But it's the very same deal with your hair - it's a part of your body - not your bosses' body, and you are born with hair that grows, and only you have to live with yourself and your body 24/7, your hair should be as long or as short as you (and not your boss) wants it to be - period! It's none of your bosses' damn business! If you dress as a pig at work, or never bath and smell bad - then yes, the boss has a right to fire you for that - but he has no right to fire you since your hair is long - or short! He can say "Put it up in a ponytail or place it in a hair net" when you are at work, yes, but that's it.
I went and started my own sales market firm directly because I refused to ever cut my hair off and the thing I was best at was sales work. I could sell anything to anybody - and at first I had to work as a telemarketer since that was the only sales job a male could get with long hair in the 1970s (and in the '80s, and in the '90s, and at some places - even still today). So I saved up my money (which wasn't easy when your in your 20s and raising kids already) and while in my 30s (in 1986) I started Keno Marketing Services in Colorado Springs - a very conservative town, even back then. I of course didn't cut off my hair or ever wear a suit and tie (I could directly thank the Glimmer Twins and John Lennon for that, as those 3 put that stuff into my head).
At my firm I did most of the ground work - it was I who would sign up - at first about 60 businesses a year (later over 100 a year) to yearly contracts and each year because I delivered the goods for these places, my re-sign up rate for the following year was over 90%! That is almost unheard of in the business world when it comes to resigning up a firm in that matter. But I did all of that with my hair in a ponytail along with having a short beard, and while I dressed nice (no jeans) I never wore a suit or tie, either. Sometimes former hippies who cut off their hair to work at their jobs would say to me "You don't have an issue with people who discriminate against you because your hair is long?" and I would say to them something like - "see that brand new car I drive sitting in your parking lot - if I had a problem with such people, I've be driving an old wreak instead.".... BTW, I had about 50 employees working in my office for me and out in the field, and I never once told any of them how long or short their hair should be. Just dress the part was what I suggested. but for a couple of years my top salesperson was a hippie guy name TJ who had hair as long as I had - and he would wear his bluejeans on the job. As long as he would sell, that was fine with me. When he moved back to California, I replaced him with a guy named Steve - and Steve was another hippie, but unlike TJ, he smoked weed all day long. That I had a problem with. I didn't care if you smoked after work (I sure did) - but not on the job. I never would have made it big had I'd been stoned all day long at work, and up until I hired Steve, I never knew anybody who could do that kind of work stoned. But Steve replaced TJ as my top salsman, to this day, he was the only person i've known who worked well when stoned. He actually lived a few doors down from me and our families were close friends, and when I gave him the job I told him he had to be 100% straight while working. He lied to me and said "Okay". Then about a month later on he told me (off the job) the truth - after he became my best worker, that he was 100% stoned everyday. At that point, since he did something nobody else ever did, and he was my top man, I just told him I was gonna forget he told me that and if he wanted to still work for me - not to ever again bring that fact up. He didn't. Today I wish I knew where Steve was, as I miss his friendship and I only know when I moved away from the Pikes Peak area, so did he - he moved up to Montana and I lost contact with him. I've tried to find him, but his last name is "Hall", and there's about a billion people out there named "Steve Hall", as believe me, I've looked for the dude.
But getting back on the thread's subject, nobody should ever be forced to cut their hair or look a certain way for anything, including work. But if you take a controversial stand on national TV wearing your bosses' clothes, then maybe you shouldn't do that? Maybe you should wear your own clothes and do it on your own time and dime when you take a stand like that.
Edit note added in by Keno: I had to post this via the admin since like everybody else here - not all of my posts show up either when I post in the normal way. So I did that and noticed that when I brought up the post number to get it to show in the admin, in this very reply where I wrote and talked a bunch about weed and people getting stoned on the job... so what is the first thing I noticed when I saw the assigned number - the ending posting number to this reply is - and I bet your you stoners guessed it - 420! LOL! Does that means something, Ronnie?
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