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Name: pluto
E-Mail:
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Brian Jones, not a virtuoso?
Date: Tuesday, February 09, 2016
Time: 5:44:31 PM
Remote Address: 92.28.141.120
Message ID: 301706
Parent ID: 301698
Thread ID: 301446
I understand your words very well, I just don't agree with what you're saying. Maybe what I am saying appears rude, but people who live in glass houses and all that.... remember 'clueless', or 'absolutely ridiculous statements'? I wouldn't have bothered to bring them up, but you decided that I was rude. I'm sure people have been ruder to you than I. If not, you really should get out more lol...joke(and why not?)
The reason why I was wondering if there was a problem with comprehension or were you being deliberately obtuse, was because you kept attributing things to me that I was not saying, things that I was saying the complete opposite of. I have pointed out where in other posts. I'm sure if I did likewise to you, you would be thinking the same.
My meaning of competent was as I described it in my last post, it is the primary meaning of competent. Throughout I have described Brian Jones as being musically talented etc. Why would I suddenly contradict myself by saying that his playing was poor(and yes you recognise now that I did not say poor, thank you)or average or below average or anything else? His playing imo was competent as I have described it. What was remarkable in the pop world, and his performances, was that Jones was playing his music on such a range of instruments. His actual playing was not remarkable, and the level of difficulty of the pieces he was playing was not remarkable imo(and I'm absolutely sure in the opinion of any competent musician), and certainly not to virtuoso standard as I understand the word when applied to a musician. You might not agree, fine.
Keno, why would me saying that your comment sailed over my head be rude? You made a comment, and said you were sorry, I didn't get it. I just said that I did indeed not get it.
Keno, I initially said I would be embarrassed for you in certain company if you were to make the statement like you did on Brian Jones' recorder playing. My comment as you very well know was aimed at the part of your sentence where you said 'or maybe anybody else period.' not the part about rockers playing recorders. Yes in the company I was thinking of I would be less embarrassed if you pulled your dick out. That was my way of emphasising how off the mark I thought your remark was.
Just to restate, at no point have I been trying to make little of Brian Jones' playing or musical ability. Just trying to give an opinion on it based on my understanding of music such as it is. You may not agree, fine.
Ok so you felt I was not answering your points with words, and that was all that I was giving you. So I thought 'right, what might be a better way?' So it's music we're talking about, so listening is what you do with music. So I thought 'start with guitar' so I gave you the name of a virtuoso player on guitar, a current favourite of mine. The hope was that you would listen to a virtuoso guitar player, and thereby have an inkling of what I understand by virtuoso on guitar. Next post I gave you the name of a recorder player I know of, hoping for the same reaction, but apparently you don't want this either. So presuming that you didn't want me to go back to words which were not satisfactory to you in the first place, I wondered what I had left...semaphore?
Ok so this post has clarified a bit what you don't want, i.e. to do the work. So, if you care to pick any instrument on any song that was on the list you gave that was played by Brian, I will find a virtuoso player on that instrument, and all you have to do is listen. It is music we are talking about after all. If picking the song from the list is still too much work for you, then I will pick the song as well.
If that offer is not to you're liking, then I can only revert to words, and say that from my knowledge and understanding of proficiency on an instrument that Jones' playing on the tunes you have named, fine as it is, does not show the technical mastery that I associate with virtuoso playing. However please note that in one of my earlier posts, I did not discount the notion that Jones could have become a virtuoso player. In fact it is possible in theory that he was, but the pieces he was playing didn't require the level of technical skill associated with the virtuoso. That is unlikely however, if he could do it he would have written and played much more complex music.
Again, the best way to move things on is to use your musical ear, and any knowledge you have of what it takes to play music on an instrument. listen and compare. I will do the work, you just have to listen. It is music, that is the best way, not my words, because for you they have proved nothing.
If this is something you want to do then fine. If not then could I suggest turning things on their head, and you explain to me why Jones' playing is virtuoso or exceptional on any of the instruments you have heard him play. I say his playing is not exceptional,you say it is. I have failed to convince you, so you take up the reins and convince me of your position.
I wrote that last part of the invitation taking cognisance of what your understanding of what an opponent in a debate has to do. If I am the opponent, then I have offered to give you a clear demonstration of what virtuoso playing sounds like, it only requires you to listen. This is a site dedicated to a musical outfit, so it is not an outlandish notion to ask someone to listen to some as part of a discourse.
Just for your information, it was you who brought up Brian Jones and used him as an example to counter what I was saying, so really, wouldn't you be the one speaking against the motion if this was a debate?
Please understand since you appear keen on the rules of debate, but seem to have a shaky grasp of them, that I am not required to prove anything to you, and neither are you required to prove anything to me. We make a case for and against, and others decide who has made the stronger case. That would be if we were having a debate, but we're not, we're having a discussion. The word debate here at Gasland is used purely in it's informal sense, for it can realistically be no other way.
I am sure anybody reading this part of the thread will have drawn some conclusion however.
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